"MetaGagement-HR" with Dr. Lyman Montgomery and Anne Scottlin, MA, CPC
Welcome to "MetaGagement-HR," the essential podcast for HR professionals looking to push the boundaries of traditional employee engagement. Join your hosts, Dr. Lyman Montgomery and Anne Scottlin, as they delve into innovative strategies and practical insights for fostering a truly inclusive and effective workplace.
Each episode, they explore the latest trends, tackle the biggest challenges, and provide the tools you need to transform your organization. Whether you're navigating post-pandemic changes, enhancing workplace culture, or integrating holistic approaches to employee well-being, "MetaGagement-HR" is your guide to elevating the HR experience. Tune in to stay ahead in the evolving world of human resources!
"MetaGagement-HR" with Dr. Lyman Montgomery and Anne Scottlin, MA, CPC
Metagagement: Revolutionizing HR for Engaged, Resilient Workforces and Mastering Work-Life Transitions
Discover the revolutionary concept of 'Metagagement' with Anne Scotland and myself, Dr. Lyman Montgomery, as we navigate the ever-evolving landscape of HR innovation. On our latest episode, we dissect how HR professionals can utilize neuroscience and practical tactics to foster genuine employee engagement and cultivate a workforce that is both resilient and adaptable. We take the conversation further by challenging the traditional view of HR as a support function, instead framing it as an indispensable contributor to organizational success—a transformation essential for earning a seat at the executive table.
Join us in unpacking the intricate balance of work and personal life in our interconnected world, where the boundaries are increasingly blurred. Through personal stories and practical tips, we discuss the concept of the 'whole person' approach and 'pattern interrupters' to help listeners transition smoothly between professional and personal spheres. From our unique methods of unwinding to mastering the art of transitions, this episode promises to equip you with insights that not only alleviate stress but also enhance the quality of both your work and personal life. Tune in to reshape the way you think about HR and personal productivity.
Too often HR is viewed as either rubber stamp or they ask us a question. You know what our answer is it depends. I know it depends. Tell me something. So HR has to know their business number one and stop giving these little stupid answers of it depends.
Speaker 2:If it depends, then say something like this Welcome to Metagagement, the HR show that dives deep into the heart of employee engagement and workplace culture. Your hosts, Anne Scotland and Dr Lyman Montgomery, bring you a groundbreaking show that explores innovative strategies and insights to transform and elevate your organization's HR practices. Dr Montgomery is an employee engagement expert and best-selling author, while Anne Scotland is an acclaimed business consultant and podcaster. Together, they will unpack the complexities of modern HR challenges and reveal innovative solutions that can be immediately applied to your workplace. Please welcome Anne Scotland and Dr Lyman Montgomery.
Speaker 3:Welcome, welcome, welcome back to Metagagement, making the possible probable in HR and in other ways, in our businesses and our lives, hi Lyman.
Speaker 1:Hello, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I am great. So for any of you who are just joining us, this is Dr Lyman Montgomery and I'm Anne Scotland, and we have been talking for months about metamindset and now metagagement, which is going above and beyond in our businesses, in HR and in all communication. How can we take it to a new, next level? We talk in this particular show. We dive deep into how HR professionals can create more resilience, right Adaptability and find new ways to engage their teams. So tell us a little more, Lyman, about a quick overview of this new show, so people know what's coming.
Speaker 1:Super, super excited for season two. As you mentioned, you know, season one was all about thinking about change, that out of the box thinking, meta, going above, beyond that transformative thinking that needs to take place. In season two we want to give application, not just think about it, but it's time to communicate about it, but ultimately to be about it. As the young folks like to say, I'm about, about it. And so when we talk about met engagement, what do we mean? We're talking about going above and beyond traditional ways of engaging the workforce.
Speaker 1:Gone, I believe, are the days where we look at the workforce as just employee ID numbers. I never forget, several years ago, when I was working on my doctorate and I had to go to the birth service office. They didn't even ask me the name. They said what's your student ID? Do you know how that made me feel? That the person did not even look up. They just simply said uh, give me your student id number please. They didn't see me. And what meta engagement is about is being seen, being heard but, more importantly, being felt.
Speaker 4:Do you?
Speaker 1:feel what that person empathy. That's what metagagement is all about, ann.
Speaker 3:Yes, no, I love that it's such a great description and really getting human and making the people the priority, because if we're connected, if we care, if we're willing to be generous, we have so many opportunities to make our own probable with these meta tools and can't wait to share those with you. So our approach is a little bit different, because we are continuously working with neuroscience-backed approaches that integrate with practical HR and business skills and strategies. So that's what we're going to talk about more today. We had such a great time on the last show, lyman, and today we are going to go do our same two main segments, so that you all get used to what they are.
Speaker 3:First segment is on the clock, obviously at work. The second is off the clock. So how do you adapt and thrive in your own environment, at home, outside the office, and how can the work you do in both really just make a better you, a happier you, a healthier you, and reflect on each other? So on the clock, we'll just jump in. But before we do that, if you're new, please like we'll always like, because this is a new episode and subscribe, please like, we'll always like, because this is a new episode and subscribe. We want to keep this coming to you and share this link. Whether you're watching live or later, you can share this link at any time with someone who might like to just sit with us for a while and have a great chat as well as learn some amazing things about communication and HR. So, lyman, why don't you take it away with reviewing briefly how HR can really help us manage change and uncertainty in the workplace?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you know. The key word there that people are probably tired of hearing is pivot. We heard that during the pandemic, you know, pre-pandemic, mid-pandemic and now many will say post-pandemic. We have to pivot. And so navigating change from a metagagement is not so much about pivot, because guess what, if you continue to pivot, you're just going in circles Pivot to the left, pivot to the left. Eventually I think it's going to make a full circle. But I think we have to get into alignment with our mission, our values and the principles that will move the organization forward.
Speaker 1:Too often we get stuck in one particular modus operandi. We've always done it this way and when someone offers something new, there's resistance to that. Well, we've never done it that way. Uh, what's wrong? You know, what's good enough for grandma is good enough for me. You know, in 1937 john built this company with his bare hands. Well, we're no longer in 1934.
Speaker 1:Okay, things, things have changed, the world has changed, and if we continue in the HR profession to do what we've always done in the past, don't be surprised when we get the same results we've always gotten. So meta-engagement in navigating change is about how do I, number one, look at the change and are we changing for the sake of change or is there a reason to change? See, I don't believe we should change just for the sake of changing. I believe that we change because it moves the dial forward. That's the purpose of change. The second thing that I will say briefly about navigating change, ann, is you have to get buy-in. You cannot get buy-in if I continue to see you as an employee number or a position.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. And let's back up. I want to go back to your number one. So you use this example of. You know we've always done this the same way. You know he built the company in 1934.
Speaker 4:I think they had trowels back then.
Speaker 3:That's still what they say. Okay, but, lyman, as you know, my favorite thing in the world to do is play devil's advocate.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Lyman. This company that I'm in has been very progressive throughout since its inception. We have always tried to keep especially HR current with the trends. We've gone through the whole DEI movement.
Speaker 3:We've gone through the whole COVID transformation of how business is run and how people work and how our teams interact with each other. We have pivoted, since we're going to use the old word. We've pivoted several times in the last three, four, five years. We've made major strategic changes. We've incurred a lot of expense and a lot of time and, honestly, a lot of stress on the team to achieve those, and we're still nowhere near where we wanted to be. So what are we doing? Because we've done everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, except probably one thing that I would suggest again, without knowing all the details. This is what I would say to that person if I were consulting with them or coaching them Does everyone understand the purpose, the reason for the change? If you've made significant changes and you keep pivoting, then I question if people understood the rationale for the change, because oftentimes the change is only as good as the current administration. So let's say I would ask this question how many turnover in leadership have you had? Because each leadership is going to bring in his or her or their own set of priorities, and so that would be number one Does everyone understand the rationale and the reason?
Speaker 1:The second is how is change communicated, and was it fire tested before implementation? Now, what do I mean by fire tested before implementation? Was there a pilot program of six to nine months and maybe a year before we went to full implementation? What tends to happen is this we get an idea, we get everybody on board, we have the rah-rah, we bring in the motivational speaker, everybody pumped up, and we go head first in implementation without stress testing it, and what tends to happen is now, in live time, those implementations are being tested and systems begin to break, probably because we don't have good systems in place.
Speaker 1:And so if you're dealing with constant change and you're not progressing, but you're saying you're a progressive, you probably haven't fire tested and it takes time to do that. It takes time to communicate the change. What I would recommend before you do any type of change, take three months just talking about the idea of change. People have to grow into that mindset. It doesn't happen overnight. You have to literally cast a vision and you have to walk people through it, and the only way you can do that is it takes time.
Speaker 3:I think so, and and the vision it brought me to brought to mind another element, which is are we forcing these changes? Is it what is the difference between discipline and incentive in an environment of change? Because discipline is really going to create a push away, a resentment, this whole thing we talk about how we're different at home and at work.
Speaker 3:the discipline will make you behave at work you don't want to get written up whatever versus an incentive, and the incentive is often to make this a better company, so we can make better sales, so we can make more money, so we can all get along. But what about taking that? And as you all know, if you've been with us for all, meta means going a higher, above beyond the expectation. The norm for me, going meta with an incentive, is what is in this to better myself as a human being? Because when I better another person's experience, I'm also bettering my own. It's the general, fundamental principle of generosity.
Speaker 4:When.
Speaker 3:I'm bettering someone else's experience, I'm bettering my own. When I better my own experience, I'm also going to have a better time at work. I'm also going to be a friendlier person when I go home. So it's looking at these elements. This is an example of going meta. This is what meta engagement looks like, so I just kind of bring that out as an example.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point. I will say this you talk about generosity. One of the best ways leadership can show generosity is to welcome diversions of ideas. When I was in charge of leading a department as a director of HR many, many years ago and we was going through a major, major downsizing and we were looking at if we were going to have to lay people off, furlough individuals, how could we do that with the least amount of disruption? One of the things the team and I were very good at doing and that was to talk about the big picture.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's going to be painful for a season, but here's our promise In nine months. We hope six months, but it's probably going to take nine months. Notice what I said In six months, but it's probably going to take us nine months. Going to take us nine months when people got in their mind okay, I can sacrifice, giving up my benefits, giving up some pay, but on the other end of that, after six months, nine months, whatever was taken away, I get back and then more and the organization is stronger. You have to paint that picture. If I give up something, what do I gain?
Speaker 1:It's sort of like short-term sacrifice versus long-term gains, and too often we don't do that. We talk about the sacrifice doing more with less and we take away. Sacrifice, doing more with less and we take away, take away, take away but we don't give back to the people that sacrifice. And this is the problem you found out and we found in banking, where they cut jobs, cut jobs and then the earnings report came out and executives got these huge, huge pay raises and the average person was out of a job Like, wait a minute, you cut jobs. So basically you just took our money to give yourselves a pay raise. That's not engagement. That's not going meta.
Speaker 3:Absolutely no, and it's such a great example too. We are already at our first commercial break. Everybody, we're going to take that really quick and then we'll be right back. We're going to talk more about the practical application of, of met engagement, of engagement, of reengaging your people, and we're going to discuss specific tools and techniques for all business people, but especially HR professionals, to help you implement, not just survive, but thrive in that environment of change. Stay tuned. While we're at commercial, please like and subscribe and we'll be right back.
Speaker 4:Unleash the power of Focused Meta Mindset lunch and learn sessions. Sharpen problem-solving skills, spark innovation, foster collaboration and build adaptability and resilience. Elevate your team's success and profits. Discover more at wwwfocusedmetamindsetcom.
Speaker 3:Hi, welcome back to the next segment of Meta Gagement. We're so glad you're here today with me, anne Scotland and Dr Lyman Montgomery. We are talking about going meta, which is always our theme, whether it's a meta mindset or meta-engagement, which is meta-engagement, taking it to the next level, above beyond what is the norm, above and beyond what is expected, above and beyond what you think might be possible. Which is why we always say metagagement is really making the possible probable. It's nice to dream, but what if it would become likely that these changes could happen in your organization without a lot of pain and suffering? So, lyman, now that we're there, going back to the practical application. Lyman, now that we're there, going back to the practical application.
Speaker 1:yeah, let's take this to the next level. Yes, yes, you know, one of the things that will cause an organization to thrive in the midst of chaos, in the midst of change, is having clarity and focus. Earlier you talked about discipline. All right, hr understand that. We understand discipline and compliance, but we don't always have an incentive program outside of some little trinket or some you know certificate or something that doesn't really hold any value because everybody gets them right. But when you find out what does that team really need to thrive and you provide them with the tools, the resources, sometimes they need a champion. They need someone that can stand up for them and say listen, let's get behind this IT team and what they're doing. Let's get behind the apps team as they build a new application for us. Let's get behind the HR, the DEI, the police, security, student enrollment, whatever the department might be finance. Let's get behind the team having those ambassadors and champions.
Speaker 1:Now, what's the difference between an ambassador and a champion? An ambassador would be someone that maybe they were in HR and they've moved up in management to an executive role. They can say listen, I served in that role as an HR business partner. I was a director of DEI. I understand the frustration. Let me go fight the battle for you. Let me go represent you to management that may have never held an HR position. Okay, that'd be a great ambassador.
Speaker 1:A champion would be someone who said you know what, I've never done HR, but I respect HR and I want to move their calls alone. Generally, an executive would be a good example of a champion. Someone that says a vice president that says listen, you know, no, I've never done HR, I don't want to do HR. Ok, but I respect the work that they do. They deserve a seat at the table and we're going to open up the doors for them to excel and to exceed and to thrive. I think those two key persons are integral to the success of any type of change. You have to have ambassadors and champions.
Speaker 3:Ambassadors and champions? Absolutely, and, as you said, that's usually higher up in management. Yes, and it comes back to communication, though I'm going to diverge for just a moment. There's a lot of people in C-suite who honestly have no idea what we do in HR. They're like they're doing the DEI thing, they're doing the remote work thing. You know the HR, like HR gets all, gets all the shovelfuls.
Speaker 1:All they care about is my pay, right, right.
Speaker 3:So, so, how, how does HR for lack of a better word lobby the C-suite and other other parts of the organization to get champions, to get you know, to get those people? That's such a great question.
Speaker 1:There's a number of articles. There's a famous article that Forbes magazine put out several years. They said, wow, we hate HR. Yeah, I can relate to that. I think the reason is sometimes there's this love hate relationship with hr. Hr oftentimes is viewed as a spare tire. We only need hr when there's a problem. There's a opening, then we call hr, like the fire department, come put out this fire. Then y'all then go away.
Speaker 1:All right, what's happening now? When you have champions and when you have those ambassadors, they're saying no, hr needs to be on the forefront of some of the decisions that we make. This is why engagement, this is why diversity, equity and inclusion. This is why having a respectful workplace is critical to any organization, because if HR is not there, you start seeing lawsuits, you start seeing disgruntled employees, because the power of a great HR department is to protect the C-suite, is to protect the C-suite, oftentimes against their egos. Let me say that again Oftentimes HR needs to serve as that same force against C-suite's ego.
Speaker 1:Now you might be saying that's kind of harsh. Are you against executives? No, I'm not. But what I'm seeing is this HR also has a responsibility to earn their right at the seat. It's not just given to you. So we have to be proactive. We have to make the case for why we have, or need a seat at the table, and what I used to do when I was in that role is I would always talk in the language of the executives. So you have to have some business acumen. Most HR people they only know HR. They don't understand P&E. They can't look at a balance sheet, they don't know what a profit-loss statement, they don't know how to do P&E ratio. They don't know any of that that business people have a business acumen for. So the first thing I would say is learn the business of the business, not just your little slice of HR. Because as long as you just stay HR and all you're concerned about is moving the workforce around, you will always be viewed as a spare tire.
Speaker 3:You got to speak, the speak you have to speak. The speak, yeah, and create you know, I would say oftentimes, you know, we'll hear people complain about not getting the respect they deserve from the upper echelons. Right, but to a certain extent you have to cultivate that respect. You have to demonstrate your wins so that they don't just see see you as an expensive department with little return.
Speaker 1:Say that again, Ann.
Speaker 3:An expensive department with little return.
Speaker 1:Yes, we don't understand. We don't understand return on investment. That is crucial, ann, and that's something that we've been fighting against. That's one reason we're doing this is to empower HR to say no, you have a lot to offer. Open up your mouth, okay, demand. I'm going to say it again no one's going to give you anything. You have to demand your right to be there, but when you get there, you better have something to say that's worth hearing.
Speaker 1:Too often, hr is viewed as either rubber stamp or they ask us a question. You know what our answer is it depends. I know it depends. Tell me something. So HR has to know their business number one and stop giving these little stupid answers of it depends. If it depends, then say something like this Well, without knowing all of the factors, there could be one of three different scenarios. Here's the key. There's always the best case scenario, the worst case scenario, and if we maintain the current course, that deals away with that stupid, it depends. I'm going to give you what the best case, worst case, and what happens if we continue on this trajectory. That would do away with some of this nonsensical stuff that HR tends to talk about all the time. It depends. Well, I don't know, let me go check, tell me more about it.
Speaker 3:That's just good communication anyway. Right, Because it's partly about creating confidence within the HR department in their communication style with upper management. Right, Having confidence to come in and with just good communication. Remember, if you're a salesperson, what do you do? You answer a question with a question. If they ask you a question, then you say well, which scenario would you like? It's that simple. Stop making it complicated so we can always grow in our communication styles in general and be taken more seriously because we take the communication more seriously. Yes, and you're not always in a position, a defensive position, because that's too often, I think, where a lot of people find themselves. That's a good point.
Speaker 1:We find ourselves always behind the eight ball position because that's too often, I think, where a lot of people find them. That's what we find, that's a good point, and we find ourselves always behind the eight ball. But the verbal eight ball now in in the last um, in the first episode of season two, I said the c-suite in hrt is to be schizophrenic. Now some of you might say, oh, I can't believe, that's not PC. Oh, he says schizophrenia. What about people that really have schizophrenia? Get over it.
Speaker 1:Listen, those of us that are in HR, we know that some of the things we do appear as if we're schizophrenic. Let me give you a quick example. We say in HR when you're at work, we expect you to be fully engaged in your work, but yet every time someone comes to the HR office, we're out doing something, can't get in contact with us. You put in a vacation request, ann, three weeks ago. You call HR. Hey, I want to see if my vacation's been approved. Oh, we're still considering it.
Speaker 1:Or I file a complaint with HR. It goes into a black hole somewhere. Listen, I've consulted with organizations in the HR departments and I said when you have an investigation, the person who's the complainant. You have the complainant and the respondent right. We communicate more with the respondent. I said did we ever communicate more with the respondent? I said did we ever get back with a complaint and let them know that we closed out? Well, no, we didn't.
Speaker 1:And you wonder why they don't trust HR? We move too slow, a bunch of bottlenecks, and so part of what this podcast is designed to do is to shake HR and get HR to start thinking differently and say you know what we got to change? We have to change the way we are viewed in the marketplace and we have to. When we show up at the table, instead of giving little stupid answers like it depends or tell me more about it, we need to be ready to give an answer if. If someone asks us a question, well, how many openings are you projecting over the next three years? You should know that. You should not have to say well, you know, uh, let me go run an announcement. You should know that.
Speaker 4:Ask a question, so you can guide the other.
Speaker 3:Well, and what you said, too, is about you know, we have to change, and I think this is where we bring a fresh approach to the conversation, a fresh approach to the table, because change, lyman change is just freaking exhausting. It sounds like so much work, and we've already been working to the bitter end. We are burning the midnight oil. What are we supposed to do?
Speaker 3:So this is where meta comes in and really gives us a gift, because by going meta, we are talking about working smarter, not harder. We're talking about going to the next level, about considering, coming from a human perspective and doing it in a way that is going to make life for everyone easier, not harder. If we were to evaluate every new strategy that we've tried to implement in the last five years and say, in what ways did this make each individual employee's life easier and not harder? I would love to see the answers to those questions.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely yes.
Speaker 3:So I think it's about meta is coming from a different perspective. It's putting on a different set of glasses, it's looking at it differently, not just because we've got to do it differently. We've got to do it better, we've got to do it smarter and we want to do it in a way that creates more ease throughout the organization, throughout the company. If HR could create an environment of more ease, I guarantee you're already more popular from the C-suite down.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's the key. Right there, there's a lot of ease. Let's reverse that and create more ease. And the last thing I will say and then I think we've got another break bam, what a time go coming up. And that's this, ann, when it comes to the workers, the employees, the staff, we say that we value all of our employees. Mr HR, miss HR, let me ask you a question how many of the high performers do you know on a first name? I guarantee, ask any HR person. They know all the bad apples, all the low performers. So we spend 80% of our time dealing with jokers that don't want to work. And the high performers, we don't even know their name. Someone contacted HR and said hey, I want to give an accolade, a recommendation to Ann, to Heather, for doing a great job. It doesn't happen. So that's the problem. We spend all our time dealing with problems and then we go home and we got locked up.
Speaker 3:That's the truth, which is a great transition, because we got home, we got locked up, right, OK, so we, when we come back, we're going to move into the final segment of our episode today, which is called Off the Clock, and today we're going to talk about adapting and thriving. So hang on, we're going to take a quick commercial. In the meantime, please like, subscribe, shoot this link to someone who might enjoy this show. We would super appreciate it and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 3:Welcome back to the last segment for today in our show Metaagement, with myself, anne Scotland, dr Lyman Montgomery. We are so glad that you all have stuck with us and we are going to continue having even more exciting conversations later this afternoon and in our upcoming episodes, so please stay tuned. Finish talking about being on the clock and the HR issues that we deal with on a regular basis and how we can go meta, how we can go above, how we can go beyond in our approach, in our strategies, so that it's easier, not harder, so we can bring more ease to our organization. But this also is a conversation, lyman, that we've been having on an ongoing basis, you and I, which is it's really about the whole person.
Speaker 3:We don't have work-life balance anymore. Then we had work-life integration and now it's like now we're dealing with a whole person on the clock. Off the clock, Sometimes. People are working at home, Sometimes people are bringing their home issues into the workplace because they can't help it Right. So let's talk a little more about off the clock, adapting and thriving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know that's a real struggle for a lot of people, not just in HR. If you're an entrepreneur, especially if you work from home, there is no going home. You're at home. You know the difference between your workplace and maybe your living space might be a door, right it might be a set of stairs, and so how do you now switch over? And I think you have to have a break. You have to have what we call a pattern interrupter. And what a pattern interrupter is?
Speaker 1:You have to do something to shock the nervous system that will realign your thinking and say, ok, I need to switch. A good example is if I'm working on something extremely complex, the switch is I go watch cartoons or do something like for me. If I had a real stressful day working on a proposal or dealing with staff or something, I go do laundry and fold clothes. It's that switch between something extremely complex and doing something that's basically muscle memory and allows my brain to rest and relaxes me. For some it might be breathing. I know we just talked before the show about hiking. You know, four miles. Whatever it is that you need to do to bring you back into homostasis, because we all get out of balance and if we're just plunging in from work and then we go home and we're carrying the work home and you're dealing with problems at home, what's going to happen is you're creating a pressure environment that something's going to unfortunately explode.
Speaker 3:Explode and you talk about having an interrupter, which I think we understand from a performance level in business, and another way of describing that or another version of an interrupter is transitions.
Speaker 1:I think, yes, transitions, I'm so violent Transitions.
Speaker 3:You know, part of the reason we get home and we're cranky is because we've never stopped movement, Like when you get in the car at work. If you're working at work and you stop, turn it on, get the air or the heat running and then just stop, close your eyes, take three deep breaths, allow yourself to just settle, get present, get grounded whatever that word is meaningful to you and do it again when you're, when you park the car, before you come in the house, like, just give your body a chance. Your brain and nervous system are exhausted from being on 24 hours a day. We don't even rest anymore. Our rest is using our brain and nervous system while we're watching TV. That's rest. And then we wondered why we're wound up so tightly. So giving yourself the opportunity to take transitions as a gift to yourself and to those around you, it'll make you more patient.
Speaker 3:It will slow down the hamster wheel a little bit, in the sense we all know that often when we rush we do our worst work right. So when you can kind of reevaluate, step back, slow down, go through that transition when you're going home, that's a way of going meta. Guess what? What is it? It's easy, it's not harder, it's easier and it creates more ease in your environment with everyone, whether that's at work or at home. You can reverse the whole procedure and do it on. Do it when you leave the house and when you get to work too. That's just one of many examples of the payoff is exponential. And it might be for you. It might be meditating, it might just be singing your favorite song on the radio on purpose, it might be something, but a transition on the radio on purpose.
Speaker 1:It might be something, but a transition. Here's something that I've used and I recommend. If you're dealing with, say, contract negotiations and it's getting heated, as they often do, no one is going to object for taking a restroom break. When you take that restroom break, I want you to, as you leave, just simply count backwards from 10. It's something amazing when we count backwards. You ever notice. When you have surgery, they never say count upward one to 10. They always say count backwards because you hit zero.
Speaker 1:We talk about neuroscience. When the brain hits zero, it understands that's a rest. And so when you're leaving, sometimes you say 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. Even when you say that it slows your breathing down as opposed to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When you go up, you speed up, and so just that little technique right there of counting backwards and breathing. Oftentimes I would tell people this Ann, before you walk into your home, because you don't know what you're going to face another door, do the same thing and smile. If you have kids and they see you smile, no matter how bad their day was, when they see you smile, it's amazing how a smile is contagious, ann.
Speaker 3:So if you come home and you're like Gritting your teeth. Just like, and there's always something on the stairs that you trip on.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Carrying groceries and then you run over the dog with your foot and then you're just like it's that thing we talk, we get, we're just veering off. Also, you know that's again neuroscience. Like when you settle your energy, you create a dip in the energy around you.
Speaker 3:And I don't mean a dip in a bad way, I mean a change of energy. So if everything at your home is chaos, chaotic, but you walk in and instead of like our natural nervous system response is to meet the level of energy in the room we're entering, because it's a flight or flight, honestly. It's a survival mechanism.
Speaker 3:But if you come into the room and you've done your deep breathing and you've done your reverse count, to kind of pretend it's just two of many tools that you could use, and you come in in just a state of ease and just kind of observe and people could be coming to you asking for things, complaining, whining, crying I don't care if they're children, husbands, significant others, anybody complaining, crying, whining at that moment and you're just kind of listening and taking them in but you're not joining in that fray.
Speaker 4:You're not meeting that energy.
Speaker 3:It's amazing you can see the change over the next few minutes of the energy coming down, people getting a little more reasonable, less panicked, less overreactive. So that's a way of going meta. Yeah, again, it's doing it smarter, not harder instead of being conflict, it's being intentional.
Speaker 3:It's being intentional with your own energy, your own attitude and then allowing that to naturally change those around you. You, you can yell at people shut up, stop that, put that down. That's only raising the tension in the room, right? So just one of those little meta things to watch for how you can shift them. And if you're a very observant person and if this kind of thing appeals to you and is fun for you which it is for me, because I love the science and I love experimenting with it play with it. Play with it when you come into a business meeting. Play with it when you come into the house. Play with it when you go into any social environment of you know a few people to. You know anywhere from one to 15 people and just see how that changes the environment. Just observe. Next time, come in and over-exaggerate the other way and see if you can notice a change.
Speaker 1:So have fun and let us know. Let us know, yeah, try it out and let us know. The other thing is this. I want to ask you this question as you were talking what about all those that just sounds like woo-woo stuff? Woo-woo and fluff stuff? You know, all this breathing and meditation and counting backwards. I'm too busy to do all that. I got work to do. What would you say to them?
Speaker 3:I would say it's scientifically proven and I can bring it. You know. You just tell me what area of science you want me to bring that can show, you, demonstrate how this is effective, and we can find one for you. So I think you know how you define it in your mind, how you practice it, which tool or practice you want to try. That's up to you, but the concepts are absolutely solid.
Speaker 3:This is to a psychologist, a therapist, a medical doctor, a extremely extraordinarily successful business person, ceo, multimillionaire, billionaire. They all know these tools. The most successful people in the world use these kind of tools. So it is not a secret, it's, and it's not woo woo. You don't have to like have a butterfly, have butterflies and rainbows, you can be a hundred percent business. But be smart because we have and I'll just say this briefly and I've said this before and you know it I grew up in an environment where if it wasn't hard, you weren't trying hard enough. That's just absolutely exhausting. And so I'm already a type A firstborn. You name it like exhausting. Talk about coming into life, running and never stopping, ever Right. So when you come into and with a different kind of energy, you have the opportunity of creating a different kind of space, and I say and science supports it Absolutely- Go read any of the books, steve Jobs, anyone else.
Speaker 3:Read the books and you'll see so. But it's the tiny little things that make the difference. It's not the strong arming everything to make it work, and a lot of times we think of that traditionally as kind of a male energy. But it's any kind of energy, right? Is this trying to force things to fit our level of comfort? What makes us feel in control, as opposed to coming in in a different way? So yeah, you can call it whatever you want. You don't have to try it, it's not required. But hey, you know, if you could do it smarter and make your life easier, wouldn't you want to at least give it a shot?
Speaker 1:I think so Wow, that was perfect, that was awesome.
Speaker 3:Wow, this episode went so fast today. Thank you all for joining us here. We had a great time. Please continue sending in your questions, your comments. You can email us. You can leave comments here on whatever platform you're listening or watching today. You can shoot us an email through our website, which is metagagementcom, and we'll try to answer your questions on the show and shoot this to someone who might enjoy this conversation. They'll thank you for it. We always have a good time and we thank you for being here. Thank you for liking and subscribing and we can't wait to bring you our next episode. I could give you the whole lineup, but I'm gonna wait for you to come and be surprised. So that's it. Any final thoughts? Lyman?
Speaker 1:Go meta.
Speaker 3:Go meta. All right, cheers everybody. We'll see you next time. Cheers Tune in. On Fridays We'll be streaming at, let's see, 11 am Eastern, which is 8 am Pacific. See you then, Bye. Bye-bye.
